00:00:07: Welcome to ITB Berlin's Travel Hero podcast.

00:00:11: I'm your host Charlotte Landavies of Management Consultancy, A Bright Approach and i am excited about todays chat titled The Great Outdoors the Rise Of Nature And Adventure Travel In The Americas.

00:00:24: This is an area seeing tremendous growth and we shall aim to dig very deep.

00:00:29: We have two fabulous guests with us today.

00:00:32: They are Nicholas Weiss, President, Destination and Business Development at Adventure Tribal Trade Association also lovingly known as ATTA.

00:00:43: Nicolas welcome to you!

00:00:45: Thank You Charlotte.

00:00:46: I'm delighted to be here with all the people listening.

00:00:52: We are grateful that you can be here.

00:00:54: Oscar Leondo is our other guest, he's regional sales manager for LATAM and the Caribbean at Get Your Guide.

00:01:03: Oscar welcome also to you!

00:01:05: Thank

00:01:05: you so much to you for having us and especially things to like-to-be because we didn't get a guide from this topic happy to be here.

00:01:13: Absolutely, we're delighted you are both here with us today.

00:01:16: You have very carefully chosen the two of you.

00:01:19: so I think in order to kick off those We should let you guys tell us a little bit about yourselves before we dive in.

00:01:27: So Nicholas why don't we start?

00:01:28: With you and tell us how you ended up with ATTA please?

00:01:33: sure that's A fun story.

00:01:35: well my background is in business and economics.

00:01:39: i also Have a master's in local economic development.

00:01:43: So I'm really into learning how can we support destinations and countries to sustainably develop.

00:01:51: But in my personal life, i enjoy visiting national parks nature-in general.

00:01:56: so ATTA is probably the best match that are found In terms of mixing my professional and my personal lives.

00:02:07: And I really think when I've learned about adventure travel is a tool for sustainable development.

00:02:14: And that's how we say it in ITTA.

00:02:17: That wonderful.

00:02:18: thanks again, for being with us.

00:02:19: Oscar you've got a twenty-five year history and travel.

00:02:23: tell us just a little bit about it?

00:02:25: How have you ended up getting your guide please?

00:02:28: Yeah I've been covering different verticals of the traveling industry but as well i did.

00:02:34: hotels themselves always excel from marketing.

00:02:38: then i did cruise line which were Caribbean working and marketing for them.

00:02:43: And then I landed at Gateway Guide five years ago because of previous experiences, you know with the activity towards side-of-the business.

00:02:54: so I've been at Gateway for five years managing a new business or acquisitions thing for Gateway.

00:03:01: Fantastic!

00:03:02: Well as i said earlier on we chosen you very carefully.

00:03:05: So let's dive into this wonderful topic.

00:03:08: We are also, I should say to our listeners at the cost of launching our very first ITB America's event in November.

00:03:15: In Mexico and we'll therefore look at things specifically on this chat from a Latin and South American perspective.

00:03:24: so Nicholas i'm going start with you.

00:03:26: let us Look At The Bigger Picture From ATTA Perspective.

00:03:30: How Has Demand for nature and outdoor travel changed across North, Central and South America in recent years please.

00:03:39: Right so adventure travel has been growing consistently globally but especially in north central and south america.

00:03:49: we've been doing different reports on studies and saw that in twenty-twenty four the adventure travel sector passed a trillion dollars And we expect to keep growing probably by twenty thirty.

00:04:06: It will reach the two trillion and this is a big reason for these, it's how people or travelers that are open to adventure are growing substantially.

00:04:20: so more people Are including Adventure and nature type of activities within their itineraries when they travel

00:04:29: Absolutely.

00:04:30: I'm wondering, Oscar if we can bring you in here as well.

00:04:33: some Get Your Guides perspective?

00:04:35: You are very close and have a good-and-close view on what travelers actually search for when they're booking.

00:04:41: but What Are You Seeing In Terms Of Demand For Nature Outdoor And Adventure Experiences Across The Americas?

00:04:48: Specifically?

00:04:48: Again

00:04:49: We've seen the real momentum Globally adventure bookings from Gate To Guide Up to The Five Percent Year Or Year.

00:04:57: And just to give you an idea, the first half of twenty-twenty six, Dawkinson Costa Rica, Waterbala and Parama each double when compared with the same period.

00:05:08: You know adventure and travel experiences are a big part of what made those destinations so appealing.

00:05:15: What I find interesting here is that the growth goes beyond the traveler who would call themselves as an adventurer.

00:05:24: So people now They don't think they need to be like an expert on hiking.

00:05:29: An expert in doing something, that just wanna have interaction with nature.

00:05:35: so definitely I think we have a huge opportunity with this category

00:05:40: globally.

00:05:41: I'm very keen on that particular comment you know?

00:05:43: In terms of moving from niche to mainstream You could almost say and there's reason for it as your saying maybe people who didn't previously engaged sort of in the greater outdoor as a holiday opportunity.

00:05:55: They are now beginning to see that, hey this could be for me as

00:05:58: well.".

00:05:58: Somebody said it wasn't me but adventure travel is no longer just about adventure.

00:06:03: so when we do talk about adventure travel today what does actually mean to The Traveler?

00:06:09: I don't ask her if i can go back to you and then we will get to Nicholas But You sort-of started this one off I think.

00:06:16: And I love this topic Charlotte.

00:06:18: Adventure doesn't have too many climbing a mountain, right?

00:06:23: Making it difficult.

00:06:25: It might be just kayaking for the first time or going on a sunrise hike Or you know heading out with that guide to spot like the wildlife and watching to explore for a fauna.

00:06:39: You know number of that really resonates me preparing preparation for this podcast.

00:06:43: It's a fifty-five percent of travelers in our research said they've been open to bird watching on their next trip, so they are hoping to wake up early morning just for height and seabirds in the nature with that guide who can teach them right where a guy what he can learn from about that adventure.

00:07:02: So it is not being taught that with nature.

00:07:11: Yeah, yeah but it's definitely more than just sunbathing on a beach shall we say?

00:07:16: A hundred percent!

00:07:18: Of course.

00:07:18: sure Nicholas any thoughts from you?

00:07:20: one this particular sort of topic or line-of-topic?

00:07:22: It

00:07:23: is great to hear these from Oscar because he's super consistent towards what we are seeing.

00:07:29: in ATTA We define adventure travel in a broader way as usually how it's defined in specific countries.

00:07:38: So we say that adventure travel is an activity, but it's done immersed in nature and in connection with the local community.

00:07:47: so That means that we include activities such as cultural or gastronomic tourism.

00:07:57: Super interesting.

00:07:59: In the last three to five years this type of activities are on the top five most demanded activities in adventure travels.

00:08:08: So not only hiking and cycling, but also how this type of nature and adventure travel activities are being complemented with cultural and gastronomic activities is really speaks off how Oscar was describing these as well.

00:08:25: Yeah, and I think again this wish to want to truly immerse yourself with the local communities as well is something that i know we're going be talking a little bit about when it comes in.

00:08:36: You learn from the local community so many more ways than just go on a hike.

00:08:42: Interesting, maybe to talk a little bit about demographics because I know that our audience will be keen.

00:08:47: who are all these adventurous people.

00:08:50: Who's driving the growth?

00:08:52: Are we seeing any particular age group that is spiking demand or generation type?

00:08:59: What do you have in terms of data on this?

00:09:01: Oscar can i go back again please?

00:09:04: In our region much of the demands come from international travelers particularly North America.

00:09:12: I need Europe.

00:09:13: You know, get your guy who have a strong from presence in Europe and the United States now?

00:09:18: In terms of the demographic we're seeing more couples and group because they see like an adventure tour as an opportunity to interact with friends ,to interact with families.

00:09:33: so definitely North American Europe driving that growth and couples and groups are important based on the demographic.

00:09:42: I don't know why i expected you to say something else, it's interesting.

00:09:44: I want to hear from Nicholas as well...I thought that we're gonna stay younger and single travelers but that's interesting.

00:09:50: Nicholas can I get you in on this?

00:09:53: Yes of course the age group is probably biggest for many years between forty five and sixty-five.

00:10:04: We see that in North America this average age is higher because usually retired people travel more.

00:10:14: Source markets, the biggest ones are definitely North American Europe but we have seen how Asia and the Pacific are growing consistently at higher rates among individuals.

00:10:29: We're seeing growing rates for solo travelers in women-only groups But these are still smaller segments compared to picture.

00:10:42: So we are seeing things shifting a little bit, sort of bringing other groups in or demographics and I mean we spoke last year this year i should say at ITD Berlin quite a lot about the solo traveler on the solo travel market because we know it many ways not just females but general solo traveling or solo travelers is becoming quite big an important segment as well.

00:11:01: so back to mainstream versus niche.

00:11:04: We're seeing that Adventure travel is becoming a little bit more mainstream.

00:11:09: Is there any data, rather than we've already spoken about what the sector has worth and what it's bringing in?

00:11:15: Is there anything specifically that we haven't touched on all ready that makes this the case?

00:11:20: you know... ...that its' more mainstream then considered niche as was originally I think?

00:11:25: Oscar maybe i'll let you elaborate again A little bit again.

00:11:30: The adventure travel.

00:11:32: It stayed away from Nietzsche And as I said before, you don't need to be an expert.

00:11:41: You don't NEED TO BE AN EXPERT IN FLORA OR FAUNA or an expert on KAJAKIN to have that experience!

00:11:50: That's why what they're looking for is a tour where they can have great guides and experts who can teach them Right.

00:12:04: I think it's not about complicated equipment to a crazy mountain that don't want to climb, right?

00:12:15: But in the safety of many others.

00:12:18: you know things...

00:13:00: Well i like that but i also like that The Traveler is becoming much more excited About doing Many-Many More Things when they're out discovering the world!

00:13:10: That leads me to think that there certainly isn't a sweet spot, or is there a sweet-spot between adventure and comfort emerging?

00:13:17: I mean not everybody wants to rough it.

00:13:20: Just like not everyone wants to climb Kilimanjaro.

00:13:23: Nicholas any data on how the sort of the comfort aspect is merging with wanting to be adventurous?

00:13:31: I think exactly what's happening here.

00:13:33: We see people who define themselves as open to adventure.

00:13:40: so including within their normal or regular itinerary we are now including an adventure our major type of activity.

00:13:52: So, It doesn't mean that the whole program is going be based in Adventure Travel but they're gonna start including one or two activities small or short tracks, so activities that complement the program.

00:14:12: they probably started during many years ago but now it's a little more adventurous.

00:14:18: Yeah, I love it.

00:14:20: You're very in sync and have to say chaps which is lovely!

00:14:23: I want to talk about sustainability.

00:14:25: we only had so much time both at ITB America's and ITB Berlin.

00:14:30: next year Sustainability will be big on the agenda.

00:14:33: So nature and adventure travel obviously depends upon places that were also trying to protect.

00:14:39: I'm wondering if you could tell us a little bit of this balance between growing demand And what we need to do is protect destinations and certainly local communities, but not all local communities want to be involved at the time.

00:14:52: Nicholas I will start with you.

00:14:53: I'm sure that you have some data?

00:14:54: back things up here?

00:14:56: Well nature and national parks are really the background for our visitors.

00:15:03: so... We see two thirds of all adventure travel companies visit a National Park during any type of itinerary or program.

00:15:16: so protecting the natural area is essential because if there's no forest, if there are no lakes and mountains.

00:15:26: There're no offer nor supply.

00:15:28: adventure travel depends on that.

00:15:32: And its same with local communities.

00:15:34: I mean we need to work with local community respecting their values traditions also Making the case of why adventure travels or tourism in general is a business opportunity that will respect their values and traditions.

00:15:53: That's super important to continue in sustainable path.

00:15:58: Yeah, absolutely still an awful lot to be done.

00:16:01: We all know this.

00:16:02: Oscar any thoughts on this particular?

00:16:05: A matter topic from you.

00:16:07: yeah It isn't very interesting topic right and what we do a schedule guide is worth hearing that demand for better expert and high quality operators, local tour operators in places where they can handle those visitors.

00:16:28: This isn't about necessarily more bookings.

00:16:32: it's understanding who the supplier you know, the national park or whatever their tour is.

00:16:44: And that community wants and they're prepared to host those people.

00:16:49: That's what we are trying to do here.

00:16:50: Yeah it was good!

00:16:51: It's really good to hear everybody working towards the same goal You know?

00:16:55: We need more of this on these types of collaborations Of course Looking forward.

00:17:01: gentlemen I want us get your crystal balls out a little bit.

00:17:04: So if you were advising another region then wants to position itself as a sort of destination for outdoor and adventure travelers.

00:17:13: What would be your talk?

00:17:15: Should we say three pieces of advice, Oscar?

00:17:18: what's your free piece?

00:17:20: I love these questions.

00:17:23: the first one will make it easy if traveler experiences they can understand unbook confidently with clear details about what's involved in that adventure, even though you have to make it real clear.

00:17:38: What do you offer?

00:17:39: Where are they going

00:17:40: again?".

00:17:41: The second one would be think big.

00:17:43: your own extreme adventure as we said before is not necessarily niche anymore.

00:17:50: a guided hike wildlife tour.

00:17:52: those type of experiences are very appealing for travelers now.

00:17:58: and I think The third one, and most important one is build trust.

00:18:04: Make sure you have great guides, accurate description consistent to see.

00:18:09: think about the quality.

00:18:12: try to get five star reviews all the time because that's what people want.

00:18:17: Have a wonderful experience right?

00:18:19: Enjoy the landscape but also trusting the tour operator who are taking them there.

00:18:27: They can trust them.

00:18:28: I love those three, Nicholas!

00:18:30: I think i'm gonna love your three as well.

00:18:31: so let's have then.

00:18:33: So i'm going to answer this from a destination development perspective.

00:18:40: It is not only about recognizing the attractions and the beauties that you have in your destination And start promoting them.

00:18:49: it's super important To prepare The destination of people there adventure travel to have a higher impact in the destination.

00:19:02: We need communities, we need local business to be ready to receive this type of travelers.

00:19:07: so one thing is being able to train and prepare these companies and people guides as well To receive travelers training them.

00:19:18: it's super important.

00:19:19: A second aspect that I think is essential Is that destinations should not only focus in promotion, but also in market activation.

00:19:31: How do we connect the local businesses to their global commercial chain of travel?

00:19:40: So that's how they get ready and bring those business back home.

00:19:45: The third one I would say is... And probably it isn't a third thing But this first one is respecting the needs and putting into value the local traditions, because in the end what differentiates a destination from another is not that you have different type of forest or at different types of wildlife.

00:20:06: It's humans and people who inhabit their territory but will be different to other places And this probably one of our main differentiators.

00:20:16: Now sadly, Gents we are getting close to wrapping up but Nicholas now.

00:20:21: We've talked so much about the traveler But what about you?

00:20:24: I mean it started out by saying that You know your preferences and matched very well to the job That you ended up doing.

00:20:31: but maybe our listeners would like To Know What's one experience or destination that has really stayed with you.

00:20:39: there might be more than let's have One.

00:20:42: yeah i am thinking About two or three bed.

00:20:45: Indeed, I am proud to say that iam an adventure traveler and have visited thirty-seven of the forty five national parks in my home country in Chile.

00:20:56: But im gonna speak about a very special place that I've visited some years ago In Slovenia.

00:21:03: There's valley called Soka And...I did a river kayak course there.

00:21:12: That play is not only the company that did their training, but also they value itself and community living there is really marked me.

00:21:22: I'm looking forward to go back

00:21:23: again.".

00:21:24: I love it!

00:21:24: I am a big fan of Slovenia.

00:21:26: Ask perhaps so we can say in question what's one outdoor or travel experience you would happily do tomorrow end-the day after?

00:21:36: We are going fast over stimulated and over connected Manuel Antonio National Park in Costa Rica, it's toning.

00:21:47: It was for me the perfect way to disconnect for two hours and see real flora fauna animals like monkeys around right?

00:21:57: When you go there and just see that is a calm in your mind.

00:22:01: And then you have the water.

00:22:03: You have slots.

00:22:05: they're beautiful.

00:22:06: when you see how nature goes with usually it's like having a moment to reset, fresher see all that color right and I will do it over again.

00:22:23: You are selling it very, very well Oscar.

00:22:26: I am closing my eyes and i'm nearly there!

00:22:28: Oscar Nicholas thank you both.

00:22:31: Well its been fantastic to dive in a little bit into this adventure topic with you And you have really been true travel heroes.

00:22:37: so Oscar Thank you for joining us today

00:22:39: Thankyou

00:22:40: for having me Charlotte and thank you ITB For giving us the opportunity.

00:22:44: It's been wonderful Nicholas of course.

00:22:46: Thank you,

00:22:47: thank you ITV.

00:22:49: Thank you Charlotte and looking forward to meeting in November in ITV Americas!

00:22:53: You bet this is a very exciting space as I think i said when we started having the conversation... And I really hope that we've given our listeners some ideas of what awaits them out there if they go and look for it.

00:23:07: As always thanks to you our listeners ...you can find all of our travel hero podcasts on ITB Berlin's website And you can also find more information about the ITB America's event on our website.

00:23:21: We hope, as we said already to see you there in November!

00:23:25: Next time – we'll explore what is shaping the hospitality factor today from successes and challenges we're seeing to trends & opportunities that are shaping its future.

00:23:37: So till then thanks for listening and safe travels.