00:00:17: Welcome to ITB Berlin's Travel Hero podcast.

00:00:20: I'm your host Charlotte Lamp-Davies with Management Consult C, A Bright Approach.

00:00:25: In this episode we're exploring one of the many fascinating shifts happening in travel today.

00:00:31: The evolution of luxury Luxury is often associated with five star hotels First class flights and exclusivity.

00:00:40: But Todays Traveller Is asking different questions.

00:00:44: They are looking for meaningful experiences authenticity, personalisation well-being sustainability and access.

00:00:52: In many cases time has become the ultimate luxury.

00:00:57: So what does luxury really mean in twenty twenty six?

00:01:01: What are affluent travellers prioritising?

00:01:04: And is luxury becoming more inclusive or more exclusive than ever?

00:01:09: To help us answer these questions I'm delighted to welcome two industry experts.

00:01:16: Joining us is Stuart Greif, a Forbes travel guide.

00:01:20: He's at Global Authority on Luxury Hospitality Standards and Ratings.

00:01:24: Stuart & I have had the pleasure of working together before... ...and he's a dear industry friend of mine!

00:01:30: We also have with us the lovely Janet Seminova who's co-founder of Boutique Travel Advices.

00:01:36: Janet works closely with discerning travellers and luxury travel brands around the world.

00:01:43: Welcome both.

00:01:44: It's wonderful to be here again with you, Charlotte

00:01:46: Thank You for having us!

00:01:48: it is my absolute pleasure.

00:01:50: Might I ask you Stuart For our audience To tell us a little bit about your journey At this point into the industry first.

00:01:57: Yeah i had kind of a circuitous journey.

00:01:59: I was guest at First Living Out Of Hotels for many years As a consultant.

00:02:03: in fact I lived out A hotel for eighteen months In a twenty two month period And something in that was just in my dna spent more time hanging out and i'm in my twenties all use the technical term partying with hotel staff than I did with my consultants many years later.

00:02:19: opportunity to lead jd powers global travel practice.

00:02:23: I serve this.

00:02:23: microsoft's global exact and travel also then went to start up that microsoft c?

00:02:28: o put me touch as their traveling became a unicorn.

00:02:31: now for past, Six and a half years.

00:02:34: I've been Forbes travel guys chief strategy innovation officer And focus primarily in the luxury portion of the market but still playing a role in innovation Across to the broader ecosystem in our industry.

00:02:47: Janet tell us a little bit about how you landed?

00:02:50: In the space of luxury and travel.

00:02:52: So my journey is very different from Stuart's.

00:02:55: I didn't actually start in travel, I started it.

00:02:57: health care and pediatrics have always been fascinated with travel.

00:03:03: i think its an extraordinary gift to be able to travel the world.

00:03:07: you know was born in former Soviet Union when as a child we did not had opportunity for traveling allowed, and when we immigrated to the United States I was seven.

00:03:18: And i remember my mom clearly saying one of the greatest gifts in America is the freedom of the U.S passport .I didn't really quite understand what it meant.

00:03:26: as a child ,and as I got older I really came to appreciate the freedom that comes with having a united states passport and the privilege of being able to travel around destination.

00:03:41: So when I got married and had children, it was a big priority of ours in a big portion of our budget or discretionary spending that is always allocated to travel.

00:03:52: And luxury travel for me means...I think its different from every single person To meet luxury travel as the ability go to destinations that are hard to get too.

00:04:01: It's about being able show my children world and meeting locals really authentic way.

00:04:08: And so in two thousand seventeen, my business partner and I started boutique travel advisors with the goal of helping other family members initially and parents appreciate an understand that travel is a lot more accessible than we tend to think it is.

00:04:23: An international travel and remote destinations are surprisingly accessible for families with even young children.

00:04:32: And that's how we started, and then we've evolved as I've grown in.

00:04:35: my children have grown.

00:04:36: We now service a wide variety of different luxury travel markets and different luxury destinations than

00:04:42: niches.".

00:04:43: I would say that even though Janet said she didn't start in travel being pediatrics from the heart of caring for others...I think you had DNA to begin.

00:04:56: whether it's Janet leadership in the industry on the kind of high net worth, ultra-high net worth luxury traveler or what we do and the industry side.

00:05:05: And supporting providers hotels restaurants spa cruise etc.

00:05:11: It is really about caring for others.

00:05:13: sometimes business squeezes that out In ways I think very happy way were returning to as a focal point.

00:05:23: My second question was going to be when you hear the word luxury.

00:05:26: What's the first thing that sort of comes to mind?

00:05:28: And I think Stuart, You've already touched on that for sure but maybe Janet we'll get your back in here what do you think about When you hear The Word Luxury?

00:05:37: To me, luxury is deeply human And I think it's funny, its always been deeply human.

00:05:43: You know hospitality is about people connecting with other people.

00:05:47: that the entire premise of what hospitality has built on for hundreds if not thousands years.

00:05:53: and we don't travel so we can interact.

00:05:56: We travel so that we can meet people.

00:05:57: We travel, So that we could experience food and culture And chefs and guides in human beings from other destinations That are deeply immersed and rooted In their culture and heritage.

00:06:10: Now more than ever luxury has kind of come full circle back to the People.

00:06:15: I think that what we are also seeing is that luxury travellers today really seem to be much more conscious and informed than they ever were before.

00:06:23: I wonder if you both could elaborate a little bit on this, maybe tell us about the biggest changes that have been observed in traveller expectations over last three or five years?

00:06:37: Janet will go first again please.

00:06:40: We talk a lot about the word personalization.

00:06:42: And in luxury, that's always been the differentiating factor right?

00:06:46: Anyone can go online or it used to be like you could pick up the phone and book a hotel.

00:06:50: You know order taking.

00:06:52: That is not luxury Luxurious personalization.

00:06:55: I think now The expectations for personalization are becoming higher And so whereas before personalization might have meant I check into my hotel and i Have a nice welcome note that says dear janet.

00:07:06: Thank you for You know, we're so excited to have you have the most wonderful time in paris.

00:07:10: now.

00:07:10: personalization is Dear janet Welcome to paris.

00:07:15: We know that you love croissants and fresh fruits picked up this croissant from a local bakery.

00:07:23: This is the story of the owner, of the bakery that makes them.

00:07:26: and then here's a little map That kind of guides you through all the famous bakeries in our favorite bakeries In this area.

00:07:34: You know really deeply understanding who The person Is.

00:07:37: thats coming to your property.

00:07:39: if its A hotel If it's a family traveling what are the interests of their children?

00:07:44: What are the pain points that they're going to experience so that there worried about.

00:07:48: So knowing the human behind kind before they arrive in destination, thats where we see luxury really trending.

00:07:57: one thing to ride on our property and be you know recognized welcome but people want to be known and so good example.

00:08:04: my wife and I went through the world or story in Osaka.

00:08:08: It was a special trip.

00:08:09: My wife and I had met through studying Japanese when we were nineteen twenty years old, We dated two years later before she flew halfway around the world to teach in Japan.

00:08:19: She's lived there two times.

00:08:20: i've lived three.

00:08:21: it Was The first time we're able To bring our kids There And we'd been In Our teen Years.

00:08:26: We Had Actually Spent A summer At The Same City Year Apart In Japan.

00:08:30: So deeply important to us individually as a couple and our kids.

00:08:35: for the first time that's there.

00:08:36: And I shared, uh...a little bit of thanks.

00:08:38: some other GMs in Japan when i've been traveling included about story picture.

00:08:45: my wife from we're nineteen twenty years old back on today will be came back to turn down service.

00:08:51: one night is lovely manatee inner room right next.

00:08:54: it was beautiful frame and i know you can't see this business boys but it's a picture.

00:08:59: if my wife and from there that they had found in researching and beautiful writing saying, some journeys stay with us forever.

00:09:07: Becoming stories that continue new together welcome

00:09:10: back.".

00:09:11: And so this is beautiful but it costs very little like in terms of cost and time.

00:09:16: and yet you talk about a big impact and the difference between hotels are doing as well at five star level was poor.

00:09:23: really about consistency.

00:09:25: It's consistency across departments, it's consistency for a guest within his or her stay.

00:09:31: Its consistency across all the guests and its consistency over

00:09:34: time.".

00:09:35: The other thing I'll say is just kind of last quick point.

00:09:38: you know this notion in.

00:09:39: Janet touched on what you did Charlotte to this notice that transformation not just kind experience.

00:09:45: people still want to curate.

00:09:46: they don't really wanna be.

00:09:47: I don't feel picking for example some vegetables in a farm for eight hours and the hot sun all day.

00:09:53: right they want to have an experience but they wanna authentically connect.

00:09:57: In their passions first and things that activate them as you can be oftentimes choosing, Destination second or to Janet's point looking to get out to places hidden gems that nobody else knows about.

00:10:08: they want That which is rare.

00:10:10: Or that seems more exclusive Not that there can't be any other people There.

00:10:14: in a way, that's deeply aligned To who?

00:10:17: They are and what activates them as human beings.

00:10:20: And so I think that notion of caring that notion Of connection of being known not just recognized her welcome Is what we're seeing.

00:10:28: the ship.

00:10:29: yes transformation travel has always existed, but the proportion to which that's a deeper and deeper focus I think is really on increase in major trend.

00:10:38: I know Janet obviously your line of work you speak directly to travelers every day And i'm wondering if there anything specifically that springs to mind they are asking for now?

00:10:49: That we didn't ask previously about personalization But any other areas being looked at or asked

00:10:59: I mean, I think it's interesting.

00:11:00: You know travelers are we're kind of ahead of the curve right.

00:11:03: so We're seeing the trends as they really start to emerge.

00:11:07: One of the things that i'm seeing a lot more Of on that connection piece is The connection to the culinary traditions of the destinations That clients are traveling too More than ever?

00:11:19: We Are Seeing People Request cooking classes and farm-to-table experiences.

00:11:25: And to Stuart's point, they don't want to be out in the field for eight hours but they want to go to the market and pick vegetables with a chef then bring those vegetables home and prepare this beautiful meal that can enjoy together.

00:11:39: I think

00:11:41: food

00:11:43: culture have always been deeply intertwined and now we're seeing travelers recognize that when they have those meaningful culinary experiences, That's not just a memorable Michelin star meal but it truly immersive experience.

00:11:56: They have memories that kind of go with them for many years.

00:12:00: I wonder if we can talk about values and purpose And this thing that is themed conscientious luxury.

00:12:10: Is this genuine?

00:12:11: Are you seeing that luxury travelers genuinely are prioritizing, shall we say sustainability and community impact.

00:12:19: Maybe we can go to you Stuart on this one.

00:12:22: The twist is many may be missing which they absolutely want that welcome that it's increasingly difficult to consider luxury much less even be chosen if your not kind of forward leaning less sustainability of a focus, for example certain markets like the US where it's not as front and center.

00:12:42: The reality is we have an industry need to make it easier because its confusing because that's not easy.

00:12:47: understand becuase it's on consumer whether luxury otherwise how best when they stay at hotel or other.

00:12:54: wise too you had impact.

00:12:56: so we needed both inform focus right provide some wonderful date on this.

00:13:01: I know Charlotte your work directly with them globally and have a stake in play leading role on this, the say do gap that as long as they're informed up front as to it.

00:13:11: They'll make more sustainable choices.

00:13:13: I also think The other piece of that is you know You have to get away from this greenwashing Of everybody saving the same proverbial tree with.

00:13:21: you know carbon offset And Make It Real.

00:13:23: i love kind traveler which partners With hotels and destinations experience providers so guests provide A small donation or More As They Like the actual provider of that.

00:13:35: you know hotel or experience.

00:13:36: dmo chooses a local impact organization aligned to u n goals and one hundred percent donation goes too.

00:13:44: Whether it's feeding families at risk for saving wildlife.

00:13:47: and so i think increasingly things like where people can have direct impact right were they're able do without themselves having to do you know, all sorts of research and then wonder whether or not the money they chipped in for a carbon offsets actually doing something is extremely vital.

00:14:04: And I think generationally it absolutely as you see more brands that are doing that.

00:14:09: so there's also industry wide innovation.

00:14:12: each of us does our own but this combination destinations and governments like ITB Berlin place a leading role in partnering with, as well as public-private of something like sustainable aviation fuel or new kind of construction for hotels.

00:14:27: Those are things that any one player would be challenged alone to do —that is going to stepwise improvement—in terms impact on the environment and cultures where we're overtourism.

00:14:39: another big area.

00:14:41: I would like to go back and talk a little bit more about the personalization aspect of it.

00:14:46: You've both contributed some wonderful stories, both personal and also from your travellers.

00:14:53: What again Janet?

00:14:55: Maybe what do you does exceptional personalisation look like?

00:15:00: You have touched on that but maybe we can get deeper here.

00:15:04: Yeah so i mean...I could share a couple anecdotes with my most memorable travel experiences.

00:15:10: to Stewart's point didn't really cost the hotels anything at all, but they were tremendously impactful.

00:15:17: I was at The St Regis shortly after They opened in Kanai and Riviera Maya And what they did is... It was my husband and i we were celebrating a special occasion like Stewart and they called My Husband unbeknownst To me before We arrived and said What does she love?

00:15:36: Perpassions.

00:15:37: He said she loves to read and they said well what's her favorite book?

00:15:39: And he said, Well love in the time of cholera.

00:15:41: my husband happens To know it's my favorite book.

00:15:43: I have It on my nightstand.

00:15:44: i've read at a dozen times when we arrived At the hotel They literally had recreated A replica Of Love In The Time Of Cholera beautiful cake with all of this gorgeous fresh fruit and all these things.

00:15:58: And it was a perfect replica of the original cover, Love in The Time Of

00:16:02: Cholera.".

00:16:03: Now this one maybe took more time or thought but I think that's one of my most memorable welcome amenities I could have ever asked for!

00:16:11: Then on the flip side we were recently at the Avian Resort which is a beautiful magnificent property where everything about that hotel is gorgeous.

00:16:20: But to me luxury again is adventure and doing things that are hard to access.

00:16:25: And so it was my birthday, and my husband said what do you want to do on your birthday?

00:16:28: I said well i really would love to go ice diving with certified screw divers...I wanna dive in a frozen lake!

00:16:34: So they have a fantastic adventure center.

00:16:36: ...they set us up.

00:16:37: we did this incredible experience diving under a frozen Lake....and when Had printed a photo of both us that he had taken on his phone.

00:16:47: We didn't even really know He'd have taken it, printed it framed It and put it with a beautiful note in our room.

00:16:53: I have that photo actually sitting On my nightstand much like stewart probably does And it will always stay With me.

00:17:00: i will never forget That experience.

00:17:02: i will Never Forget the warmth and welcome and that's The deeply human connection piece.

00:17:08: but it has to be intentional In every single employee in Every Single person who works for the company, the hotel.

00:17:15: The tourism organization has to be deeply encouraged to provide that personalization, to go the extra mile.

00:17:24: To do things you know that are surprising but not what we usually expect a luxury hotel or hospitality professional to do.

00:17:33: and if they're encouraged people really creative.

00:17:35: I don't think it's script he followed print this photo of us.

00:17:39: ice diving something felt like we would enjoy was special day for him.

00:17:45: so took initiative kind of understand that those are the moments that resonate deeply with The Traveler.

00:17:54: We call those, you know golden nuggets about traveler and even with AI in technology In some ways part of the challenge.

00:18:02: luxury has always done that With a lot of labor notes different systems.

00:18:06: it's hard to access.

00:18:07: actually AI and technologies helping better connect That.

00:18:11: so there is company for example Abra hospitality ABRA.

00:18:16: it's kind of last mile delivery, the luxury service experience.

00:18:20: It is this missing link because a lot people right somebody hears something in one part that hotel about let say Janet and her husband and how has that conveyed and captured?

00:18:28: so that technology helping now I think bridge that at scale that luxury and they're fantastic.

00:18:34: even step before when you know internet came out right travel advisers are going away then OTAs come up.

00:18:41: Travel advisers and then with AI, travel advisors going away.

00:18:46: And the irony is like that's actually true.

00:18:48: but thats' the wrong question because at each turn, travel advisers do go way.

00:18:52: The questions which ones?

00:18:54: The one were just transactional That we're basically executing in ways you can self service.

00:19:00: Actually Luxury Travel Advisors demand has gone up You know coming out of COVID With younger generations And to agree on what advice or understanding your context Janet done something amazing.

00:19:10: She was one of the most innovative I think Tech forward agency owners and founders in terms of tech enabling ways to better connect based on a given trip the guest their contacts are background with hotels different experiences.

00:19:25: What is right?

00:19:26: the advisor is trusted because there's a quote.

00:19:30: mckinsey had this slide from one of the c eos major travel company saying you know, no lack of answers.

00:19:37: what really impresses luxury well-to do customer somebody that Ask penetrating questions, right?

00:19:43: Because that's really getting at understanding why somebody is traveling what's important to them.

00:19:49: That comes over time.

00:19:50: so the hotels are doing it with What they can but that's a partnership which they love.

00:19:54: The advisors including Janet and others who were able To help connect the dots With the guests that come there And Really create those wonderful personalized experiences in our technology Is helping make that maybe not I would say easier more efficient More powerful and able to do that for more guests, more frequently than you could in the past.

00:20:15: I think technology to Stuart's point really allows us For the first time maybe in history To create what we call The Connected Trip where it is not just a series of disparate bookings pieces of the puzzle where you can really connect The traveler to the destination, To the hotel.

00:20:39: Two the guide.

00:20:40: two the restaurants that they're visiting and preempt their needs And desires.

00:20:46: I think technology especially with AI on the speed at which AI is growing and enhancing its capabilities i Think technology's going to enable us to do That Really well.

00:20:56: for Us what we use Technology For Is all Of in the scenes thing.

00:21:01: So we want to power our advisors, to be able to deliver an extraordinary exceptional deeply personal experience to The Traveler and help the advisor ask the right questions, parse information correctly.

00:21:15: Beautiful matching that's required to match the traveler, too.

00:21:18: The right guy to the right destination.

00:21:20: two the right hotel To the right flow of the trip and to help them do it in a way That feels really natural and really personal.

00:21:27: and technology does that?

00:21:28: Really well.

00:21:29: And so all of the tools that we're looking at that were developing on the luxury segment is not really about client-facing innovation because we want technology to be behind the scenes so that human beings at the center of hospitality can come out from, you know, behind the desk and they're back offices interact more deeply with travelers.

00:21:52: It is exciting!

00:21:53: We can soon move on or talk about the connected trip as it will finally work.

00:22:00: That's what I think.

00:22:02: And Charlie, I think ironically technology is actually going to make the actual lived experience.

00:22:07: We're a business where in real life... The rubber meets the road.

00:22:11: there's ground truth and hospitality when somebody comes on your property or to your experience or on your airline or on you cruise whatever it may be.

00:22:20: what i mean by that even at age of agentic search all things people are talking about which they need to do.

00:22:28: Ultimately it's going to come down when i get five or seven personalized recommendations are through an advisor that is.

00:22:35: Kind of knowing me is.

00:22:36: you know what my reputation mckinsey?

00:22:38: so thats twenty percent less is what your saying about yourself on the website in your marketing etc.

00:22:44: eighty percent is your reputation that how advisors and agencies like one janet leaves or why for travel guide consistently shows up as a top because we focus on service in the llms.

00:22:54: four What are the best kind of luxury hotels?

00:22:57: And in an era AI schlock and proliferation content, trusted unique voices like yours.

00:23:03: Like it be Berlin like focus rate

00:23:05: etc.,

00:23:05: Are standing out as experts and ultimately The hotels and service providers that understand That cut-cut to profitability squeeze squeeze squeeze In short term is essentially commoditizing making you unremarkable.

00:23:20: You're not going standout no matter what legacy or heritage Unless you're building on the experience, and people are talking about you.

00:23:28: And people earn media and bloggers at different news sites unless your actually living it which is actual experience that's providing?

00:23:39: You not going to show up in a subset of results.

00:23:41: nobody says show me five mediocre hotels my price point near this.

00:23:45: right They want one where they.

00:23:47: you know that's a great experience.

00:23:48: right i want something that stands out both in terms of what unique about the hotel so I think thats gonna help break it down to this major vacation.

00:23:57: What is really distinct and unique with your point of view but something somebody else doesn't have, And it doesn't mean other hotels won't be around, they'll still be viable.

00:24:05: They may be part of a big loyalty program or in convenient location we're still get enough traffic but there not really gonna stand out and the way that is going to drive their business into future.

00:24:16: We sadly slowly have to begin to wrap up.

00:24:19: I was hoping might do some final quick fire round.

00:24:23: one trend that's overrated at moment steward

00:24:28: The AI personal trip planning.

00:24:30: I think that is you know far off and not really that great And won't be for a long time.

00:24:36: no offense to anyone in that space.

00:24:40: Okay,

00:24:41: i've got another one for you Janet.

00:24:43: One trend That's underestimated

00:24:46: well, and this is not a personal plug But I think it really Is the truth?

00:24:50: It's the return of the luxury travel advisor and I mean advisor In the true sense of advising the people that you trust with your most precious possession, which is time and family.

00:25:02: So with AI in social media and all this endless online content travelers have more information than ever before.

00:25:09: but more information does not always lead to better decision making.

00:25:12: In many ways it actually creates a lot more noise And people increasingly are looking for human being A trusted partner That can clear the noise provide them valuable judgment, knowing again which hotel is right for the client.

00:25:29: Which destination makes sense for a particular season?

00:25:32: Whether that's the season of the year or the season in their life —the season and their childhood—in their journey.

00:25:38: when to avoid the obvious choices?

00:25:40: how to advocate when something goes wrong?

00:25:42: I think advocacy is huge pain point because with all this AI and technology nobody wants call-a-call center.

00:25:50: A luxury traveler does not want sit on phone for thirty minutes.

00:25:52: Luxury is person who cares on.

00:25:55: how do I help you get through this?

00:25:57: How do i meet you?

00:25:58: where are in, if there's a life event that is changing.

00:26:02: So it think its human judgment and the care of somebody who actually wants or personally vested into your travel journey.

00:26:15: As we close, I want from each of you one word that you think will define luxury travel in the future.

00:26:24: It's a tough one but one word?

00:26:25: Human!

00:26:26: Oh i was going to use that one.

00:26:28: I'm great ready...one two three

00:26:31: human.

00:26:32: there we go I

00:26:33: love

00:26:33: it.

00:26:34: And i think that will have to be the most perfect place to wrap up, of course!

00:26:38: The more we know each other, the more detail we have about one another...the better you know.

00:26:44: these advisers will service all of us out there and what we want really is this personal experience which is what luxury to some extent all boils down too.

00:26:55: thank you both very much for joining us today.

00:26:57: Thank

00:26:58: You Charlotte.

00:27:00: What's very

00:27:00: clear, I think from todays discussion is that luxury is really no longer defined solely just by wealth or exclusivity.

00:27:07: It is as we have discussed increasingly about time well spent personalisation wellbeing and experiences that create some genuine connections And a little reminder to please join us next year at ITB Berlin's home of Luxury Hall where hopefully both Janet & Stuart will be around insights.

00:27:30: Thank you both again for being wonderful travel heroes today!

00:27:37: And thanks of course to our listeners, joining the ITB Berlin Travel Hero podcast next month we will take a look at how the travel industry is adapting its ways through AI which we have also touched on today.

00:27:51: until then safe travels.