00:00:16: Welcome to ITB Berlin's Travel Hero podcast.

00:00:20: The place where we explore the ideas, innovations and leaders shaping the future of global travel.

00:00:27: I'm your host Charlotte Landevis of Management Consultancy A Bright Approach And today We're exploring the evolving world of destination marketing and the role many women are playing in shaping its future.

00:00:41: Destinations Today Are Balancing More Than Attracting Visitors.

00:00:45: They have to navigate sustainability, community engagement local impact and create experiences that benefit both travelers and residents.

00:00:55: Across this space we're seeing many inspiring women stepping into leadership roles and driving meaningful change.

00:01:02: One of those women is Gide Middleton And I'm delighted to help her join us today.

00:01:07: She's a senior manager at wonderful Copenhagen Which as it happens Is my birth town.

00:01:13: Gider has built an impressive career in destination marketing and is deeply involved in shaping initiatives that create positive impact both for destinations, the communities they serve.

00:01:26: So today we'll explore Gider's career journey why women are thriving on this part of industry The challenges and opportunities destinations face And what future of destination marketing could look like.

00:01:41: Welcome to the podcast.

00:01:42: It's wonderful to have you with us!

00:01:44: Thank-you so much, it is great to be here.

00:01:48: We worked together at the recent ITB Berlin Convention in March where we joined one of our panels on the tours and activities chat.

00:01:58: Excited for an opportunity to dive a little bit deeper.

00:02:02: So thanks again for joining us.

00:02:03: It's great

00:02:03: to be back, I'm looking forward to this conversation.

00:02:07: But so am i!

00:02:07: Im gonna dive straight in because I know a little bit about it but I want our audience get to know you better.

00:02:13: Tell me what led into destination management and tourism?

00:02:18: In the first place please.

00:02:20: I've always worked with places.

00:02:23: people experiences Many years ago now seems like I work with experience economy And for me, that is somehow the same as tourism because you work with creating great experiences for people.

00:02:38: Since I'm an ethnologist... People are like a natural place to start but i am very interested in what make people behave their way they do and look at how can we make great value proposition of different kinds of target groups no matter what your working.

00:02:58: I've been a consultant for many years within the experience economy and city development.

00:03:25: combine.

00:03:26: you have to make these experiences.

00:03:29: Authentic because people come here for vacation, You also had to make it something that's relevant for the residents Because otherwise as we see in other places that much and Copenhagen but enough of a place is you can see people get very frustrated.

00:03:45: so I have two kind of look up from that.

00:03:47: how do they make them relevant?

00:03:48: or people living here as well an how do you activate this space?

00:03:54: this city escapes the areas so it makes their experience even better.

00:04:00: So, that journey is kind of well.

00:04:03: I wouldn't say its not straight forward but i've been to different businesses and focused on different.

00:04:11: This is somehow the way that I can meld it all together, working with destinations.

00:04:17: It sounds from your sort of experience.

00:04:20: you have found a sweet spot for emerging?

00:04:23: Yeah!

00:04:24: I love it so much because what i get to do and work with people... ...I get to work with experiences and develop great experiences in different kind-of target groups.. ..and some kind like city space.

00:04:41: For me, it's great.

00:04:41: Before

00:04:42: we get to talk about some of the initiatives specifically I want to get back on what i touched earlier which is that we find actually many women are very successful in this particular area of the industry.

00:04:55: do you have any thoughts as to why that might be?

00:04:57: Do women have specific strengths?

00:04:59: they've just happened to help when your work and destination line could say well...I don't know!

00:05:03: You tell me

00:05:05: Well..i think most definitely talented women.

00:05:11: Not to say that they're not talented men, but I do see a lot of talented woman and i think some the great skills like emotional intelligence being able to listen an understand what is actually going on When you have, for instance in an area where different kinds of partners are not being able to work together.

00:05:35: I see a lot my female co-workers actually attend that room and conversation with a lot empathy And focus on what is going here.

00:05:48: We don't really come up with this agenda.

00:05:52: What we want them do.

00:05:55: great way of just trying to understand people and understand a place, then develop together with people.

00:06:02: I see that as an important thing in being able to balance it.

00:06:08: so maybe the female superpower is very important or one of the main things.

00:06:15: i would say

00:06:17: Let's talk a little bit about projects and priorities.

00:06:20: So let's get down to the specifics, I suppose because I'm very excited on some of my of the initiatives that you guys are facilitating.

00:06:27: in mind goes city sure we say.

00:06:29: so what aren't they?

00:06:30: What other most interesting projects then who are currently working on given

00:06:35: there is so many Of course i think one of The Most important thing Is That We Have Really Focused In On Spreading Out Tourism.

00:06:42: There are so many great things to see and do in Copenhagen that is not at the city centre.

00:06:47: So what we're trying really actively, is to activate different kinds of mini destinations where people work together on specific storytelling and value proposition within their area.

00:07:04: We also focus on creating positive meetings between locals To see how can we actually make some kind of cultural exchange where it's a good experience for both parts.

00:07:17: I don't believe in tourism as something you put on the top of this city, It has to be really well integrated.

00:07:23: so when you work with Tourism You also worked with City Development and you work With The Residence.

00:07:28: So to Actually bring them In focus And look at How Can We Create These Positive Meetings Is Very Top Of Mind.

00:07:36: And I would also mention a big project, the big campaign that we have called Coop and Pay.

00:07:41: We've done it for several years now.

00:07:43: this is year three where together with alot of partners in city hotels tourist attractions like museums stuff like that... ...we work on how can make some kind actions.

00:07:58: they maybe pick up trash or do something good for the environment and then give some kind of rewards which could be everything from coffee to free lunch, a lecture knowledge.

00:08:11: I just see that giving so much to people living here because they're proud their city can become part of this initiative as well.

00:08:20: Tourists really love it!

00:08:22: They feel like they come here meaningful for the city as well, and for our partners.

00:08:30: it gives them a new platform.

00:08:34: They can activate activities that normally they wouldn't do before or might have done something extravagant.

00:08:43: now maybe they'll team up with a park where their hotel guests could go to collect trash.

00:08:49: some people would say why on earth will you do this?

00:08:53: But sometimes we want to do something that is a positive impact and positive change in the world.

00:09:00: And when we have vacation, we'll have time... ...and you can come back from your vacation and actually feel like you did something!

00:09:07: So, yeah.

00:09:08: We see that they're bringing it all together because there is also a way of spreading out tourists and making these positive meetings.

00:09:15: so we are at top.

00:09:16: I absolutely love this.

00:09:17: you see myself our audience can't seem me smiling from side to side.

00:09:22: i love these initiatives And do know the mini destination within a destination The meeting between locals and tourist giving something back even if its for two hours.

00:09:32: It makes anyone feel great Fascinating news, any city could do this.

00:09:40: So why don't they?

00:09:41: Well actually

00:09:42: now there's no excuse because we just launched destination pay where they can learn or get inspired from like the way we're doing it and doing it themselves.

00:09:52: And I think maybe was last week that Berlin Pay just launched.

00:09:58: so some cities are actually doing.

00:10:00: but i would also say Why not!

00:10:02: I think more should join whatever it is that they can learn from us or make into their own, but just think about in a way when we travel.

00:10:11: We have time and want to engage ourselves with the place where you visit so maybe do this your own as well.

00:10:19: I would say anyone should try doing this because we see how it creates value for many people.

00:10:25: Now, nothing just comes about without there being a challenge or two along the way.

00:10:30: So we do need to talk about that in little bit as well although the positive of having created what you have created is this podcast.

00:10:37: certainly it's going be more about but can tell us a little bit about bigger challenges when are trying bring together these new ideas?

00:10:44: Or bringing them into life because they must've been days where it has been challenging than others.

00:10:52: And here, I think again we can activate the female superpower.

00:10:56: Of course it's challenging if you just do by yourself and try to force people into something but what we always like my approach is always go out there talk to our partners or locals actually hear what makes sense for us What is good tourism?

00:11:15: Or when is tourism not bad?

00:11:19: So, of course it can be a challenge if no one wants to talk with you and nobody want's to become part.

00:11:27: the change.

00:11:28: But luckily for me maybe is just coincidence.

00:11:31: I don't know.

00:11:33: i normally always get someone that is willing or interested in being apart from each other.

00:11:38: Anything that makes it less challenging because two things like people to talk about knowledge need help them but also they engage.

00:11:49: so I can actually do maybe first round together with them, but then afterwards they have established the network.

00:11:57: They have some kind of knowledge and experience... And it's much easier to do by themselves next time!

00:12:05: So if people don't want to use their time or see no purpose that is a challenge.... But i would also say than i failed at my job and luckily why not?

00:12:19: Well, again as we have discussed on this podcast with so many different topics communication of course is always key and the reaching out.

00:12:27: And they actually presenting a plan that the audience can understand.

00:12:33: We hear the term

00:12:35: positive

00:12:36: impact tourism being bent around in little bit but I wonder what that means to you in practice?

00:12:43: Positive Tourism Is When Tourism Doesn't Feel Like What People think tourism is.

00:12:50: Now that was a difficult one,

00:12:52: but tourism actually something I think if it works well its just part of everyday life in the city.

00:13:01: Tourism when people have some kind interest you or your country they come preferably with good intentions to contribute and experience and hopefully meet up with people that are like-minded.

00:13:20: They probably would visit areas, talk to them in some way or they will go have experiences where you can feel talked about by them.

00:13:30: That is the positive meeting because we'll meet people who share your values.

00:13:37: I always say this to my partners if you create something you're proud of but want a host for that certain experience, you will attract people who like this kind of experiences and most likely have something in common.

00:13:51: So the positive impact or tourism is basically cultural exchange or value exchange?

00:14:02: Or just an extra-positive side meeting And maybe that person comes from another country.

00:14:12: Maybe they bring some different perspective into the meeting or somehow also create value the other way around, but I think when it doesn't feel like tourism as people define it then you have a success because then is just people from different parts of the world meeting up doing something that may be all of them love.

00:14:37: That is of course very much what we want to create.

00:14:40: People are not going travel any less, that's one thing for sure and people also very willing to immerse themselves in many more activities than they ever were before.

00:14:51: We have a whole

00:14:52: host opportunities if we can dive into this better both from the locals as well our tourists visiting.

00:15:00: Yeah exactly!

00:15:01: As I used say it isn't about Getting just more tours is about getting the right tourists.

00:15:08: It's not always quantity, it's quality and I think also like... And maybe again that female perspective but its' not always just a growth!

00:15:18: Its really focusing on quality.

00:15:21: then you can earn more money or create value in different ways But as long as your focus of the quality having pride in what you're doing, the authenticity of what you are doing.

00:15:35: I haven't experienced a downside to that because if do something your proud and authentic then it can also create really good for people themselves.

00:15:44: so thats kinda like win-win tourism is part development.

00:15:50: basically

00:15:51: What should destination organizations in your opinion really be focusing on over the next, let's just say two to three years?

00:15:59: Because things are going fast.

00:16:01: But we also need to pay attention to a lot of things.

00:16:04: Yeah

00:16:04: and I think off course.

00:16:06: it can always address future right... We can address everything that is combined.

00:16:12: with digital world people moving faster People want to have everything an easy access stuff like that.

00:16:20: But I think what the most important thing is you can focus on, it's to really look at how do make whatever your doing with travel.

00:16:29: How are we making authentic and meaningful?

00:16:31: And don't have that whole focus of what future brings because sometimes when people see in a very digital world where they want something more analog they want something else.

00:16:45: So once again, I think it's important that you kind of listen and understand people.

00:16:50: what is the human need?

00:16:52: What isn't that people do when its about leisure not just every day?

00:16:57: And how can give specific experience connected to place because we get always look at reason why should stay home like as always better for environment if sit down don't do anything but travel Whatever kind of way you're gonna get to your destination, a flight or train whatever use if u have.

00:17:21: Make that worthwhile.

00:17:23: we really have focus on what is it so specific about the place that brings enough value?

00:17:29: that makes sense.

00:17:30: people they do travel and when we see again and then meeting other people, meeting other cultures.

00:17:38: So if you kind of focus on what is it that your culture and area or destination can bring how do we work together with our neighbors?

00:17:48: If are like in a small destination not as city but local neighborhood when working together What's the thing to give them that they don't experience anywhere else?

00:17:59: That decreasing demand for authenticity?

00:18:02: I think It makes sense because people know that they can get anything anywhere very fast, but you can't really get the true authentic experience of a place.

00:18:14: Anywhere else if go to specific places?

00:18:18: So re-focus on what is it like giving people who don't want them somewhere else?

00:18:22: This was my last question.

00:18:24: for you personally I wanted to know What are your most looking forward to achieving over next year three to five years, say if you stay with wonderful Copenhagen for that amount of time.

00:18:34: What I'm really keen on at the moment is to focus even more on how do we create value... ...for the residents in Copenhagen?

00:18:45: We focus a lot on how can be involve people and tourism.. ..in some way make sense to them.

00:18:52: so what i do?

00:18:54: it look like work-like.

00:18:55: You are just not person from Copenhagen!

00:18:59: an individual.

00:19:00: And what we want to look at is how does this make sense for you?

00:19:04: How can we involve you so it actually creates value and I will dive even further into that area, also see if people are involved more permanently.

00:19:18: like could we get someone who would be the ambassador of our city volunteering as a part of local engagement.

00:19:27: I know somewhere they have this kind welcome committee standing and saying, Welcome to our city!

00:19:34: Some people i know will love that because it makes them They are proud and they can show people around.

00:19:42: We have some very good initiatives, for instance something called local ambassadors where locals actually go on free guided tour but don't do the whole historical route because what is specifically amazing about my neighborhood?

00:19:57: I want to create more community that involves themself in tourism like this create more community in our mini destinations, so it's for the partners that work within tourism but also together with the locals.

00:20:18: So we get these really strong communities from different parts of this city and then of course Copenhagen paid like.

00:20:25: what I love to do at the moment is inspire our partners.

00:20:30: think about how they are doing their whole action reward thing now its very focused on climates.

00:20:37: if you collect garbage, you get coffee or if you take the train.

00:20:41: You will get a free ticket.

00:20:42: but we can do more like with tourism!

00:20:45: We also look at problems in society for instance with loneliness, elderly sitting alone and young people wanting to have company... What could we do with tourism that actually gives something back?

00:21:02: In some of these different areas that are difficult to create value with them.

00:21:09: So I have a lot of great ideas for what we can do with tourism, and think also like an advice should be safe for women in this space.

00:21:17: don't be afraid!

00:21:18: Have the confidence to actually try.

00:21:20: put on bigger scale...I know a lot men.

00:21:24: they're always saying yes i can do this.

00:21:26: maybe you've never tried it?

00:21:27: Women should do that more.

00:21:29: just basically go for believe in themselves.

00:21:31: I could absolutely carry on this conversation for so much longer.

00:21:34: But sadly, you are never going to run out of ideas.

00:21:38: that is one thing.

00:21:39: i think it's very clear To our audience as well and i love how your mind works And how you're really thinking Going down completely new avenues Maybe even when we think about How do want to engage Our tourists.

00:21:54: Thank You Very Much.

00:21:55: You've been a wonderful travel hero.

00:21:57: Your insights have been very much appreciated.

00:22:00: Thank you for joining us today, Kieran.

00:22:02: Thank you so much for having me!

00:22:04: I wish you all the very best with your many initiatives.

00:22:08: For sure.

00:22:09: As always we thank our listeners.

00:22:12: please tune in next time when will be discussing trends and luxury travel And how the definition of Luxury is evolving.

00:22:22: In particular We'll look at questions such as What's the modern luxury traveler really conscious off?

00:22:29: and how our expectations shifting beyond traditional markers of wealth.

00:22:35: With that, we look forward to hearing you back soon!

00:22:38: Thanks for listening and safe travel.